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Nioh general discussion

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1 Nioh general discussion on Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:49 am

So I've seen Roy's Maria vid, she doesn't look so bad. Is this the boss everyone is bitching about? Funny as she has the masked doods moves from NG3 so if your used to those moves then I'd imagine it's easier for that.

Man Nioh is the closest thing we'll get to another Onimusha, I'm totally fine with that since Nioh does it so well. Even the abyss is like Onimusha arena challenges.
I imagine a sequel is being planned, if Nioh has sold well enough I hope.

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2 Re: Nioh general discussion on Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:27 am

So what are the difficulties available in Nioh?

So how does progressing to higher difficulties work exactly? NG+ also, does this carry over to higher modes?

I'd love to play it but I'd have to stomach a lot of spreadsheets and grindfests so I'd like to know how effectively one can circumvent this as much as possible but not be too underlevel. Numbers and weight limit stuff confound me and are just tedious, nothing 'deep' about them, just numbers. I don't want to die in 1 hit(fine with maybe 1-4 hits on average) from everything or deal next to no damage the whole way through, but I don't want to stare at number screens much either, could one detail the practical compromise I'd have to take to achieve this?

Can you use the abyss mode to grind quicker? I imagine weapons matter most regarding damage. One thing I have to say is the chunky damage values when hitting things are really distracting, like you can already see the life bar above and on the bottom of the screen for bosses, can you turn that off?

Can't wait for NG4:Spreadsheets Edition*with mini buy$*

EDIT:I don't care about builds and such I pick whatever weapon I want and that's that.

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3 Re: Nioh general discussion on Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:53 pm

> Maria
Yeah she isn't too hard when you play her the way she wants to - aka hit and run - but a lot of players hate her because she can't be tanked. Players are generally bad at Nioh, letting their stats do the talking. She (and most of the DLC bosses in general) laugh in the face of stats and will faceroll you if you don't know how to dodge.

> Sequel
They even noted that Nioh 'saved' Team Ninja, so I'm pretty sure it did really well. I think Nioh 2 will happen before we'll see NG4.

> difficulties
There are 5 now.
Way of the Samurai: the one you start at, you need to complete the main missions to progress.
Way of the Strong: harder enemies, acess to divine gear.
Way of the Demon: Red Enemies now appear in each stage, sometimes as a new enemy and other times to replace old ones. These have unique buffs, like "debuffs get the reverse effect", "lightning weapon", "remove buffs when they hit you" etc. These are also faster, have more ki and ki-recovery.
Way of the Wise: more of the above start appearing, DLC enemies also appear in the main game now.
Way of the Nioh: more of the above, the hardest enemies replace older ones. So you'll have a hard time.

Should be noted that to unlock other difficulties you only now need to beat 2 regions instead of 6, to make it easier to get to the last one.

> grind
The grind is gone now, unless you are really perfectionist. You can just play the main game as you want, grab whatever gear you find. Go to DLC3 and kill Jin Hayabusa a few times to get the full Hayabusa set and voila. You are 'ready' for the whole Way of the Strong. At the end of Strong you do the same, kill him a few times for the full Divine Hayabusa Set. Then on Wise you either defile (abyss feature) the gear or have someone carry you. You can now co-op the whole game anyway. So if you want to play, we can just play together and I'll carry you.
Honestly the grind really isn't there anymore unless you want to play in a very specific build way. Especially for your first playthrough.

> die in 1 hit
On way of the Nioh, it's basically Hell and Hell from DMC4, you will die in 1 hit. Thankfully there are ways around this which aren't too hard to get.

> numbers on screen
You can disable these yeah.

> pick what I want
Just be mindful of the 'attack' stat and that it's higher than what you had before, and you should be fine.

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4 Re: Nioh general discussion on Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:24 am

Thanks for the comment, definitely looking forward to this next time it's on sale.

How's the enemy roster? Wise difficulty dlc enemy remixes sounds interesting.

Any general tips for newbs?

I'm fine with Nioh 2 before NG4, gives them time to think about NG and improve their new ip. And if Nioh 2 has stats(it will) I hope they make it as un-intrusive as possible, ultimately optional and only really a concession for less skilled players to get buy without improving their play. For example Bloodborne stats are very painless and braindead as I barely bothered with them, only to meet weapon requirements as damage seems tied to weapon upgrades.

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5 Re: Nioh general discussion on Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:18 am

> enemy roster
Mechanics-wise it goes pretty far, there are around 50+ enemies each with a lot of different moves and setups available. Some enemies even use stances like you and or have superforms/states. Others have special abilities like summoning other foes or alerting them. There's a bit of everything in here. That said, visually, it's all a bit samey. The game has a TON of bosses though. Nearly 110.

> general tips
* don't worry about stats too much
* just grab the weapon with the highest stats, don't bother sticking to one weapon until you reach Way of the Nioh
* with armor, mostly pay attention to how heavy it is (try to stay in A in agility) and if it has a set bonus. Set bonusses are really good
* Chosing Dual Swords and Kato as your starting class is generally considered to be the go-to way, because of the stat bonuses they give. You can easily get another weapon fast.
* if you want, you can buy the DLC's early. This will give you access to the new weapons (tonfa and odachi) early on, that said they are more built around a fully fleshed out character who has enough points to buy every skill from the get go.
* the game has a TON of different items, most are useless haha.
* talk to Tome. Just seriously, talk to her. Mash that button for a good 5 minutes while drinking coffee or w/e. Gives you a lot of shop-points.
* don't upgrade, soul match, or spend any type of money until the end game (you can spend some, just don't go all out). You'll need all the money you can get by then.
* with items you don't need, make an order. You can generally do three things with them. Offer, sell or dismantel. I generally dismantel weapons and headpieces, dismantel arms and chest pieces and offer legs and boots. This way you'll always get a bit of everything.
* nothing is permanent in this game, you can always respec everything and all. So no worries about that
* side missions are generally really hard challenge maps, don't be afraid to skip them for a while until you have better gear.
* mission levels mean nothing. The higher they are though, the better gear you'll find there.
* beating a boss for the first time unlocks his drop-pool, meaning regular enemies will drop his loot as well. So no need to farm one specific enemy.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask : )

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6 Re: Nioh general discussion on Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:04 am

Thanks, I'll pick it up when it's on sale. I was playing on using the dual swords, go all Musashi Miyamoto on those yokai. I see lots of gripes about the enemy roster, mostly saying they are reused a lot, so that might be more due to looks than function.

So what's the difference between dismantle and offer?

How do I receive skill tree points? Should I buy those or save all my cash?

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7 Re: Nioh general discussion on Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:14 pm

> reused enemies
> due to looks than function
Hit the nail on the head. The game also does the stupid mistake of introducing all the enemy types in rapid succesion. Most appear in the first 2-3 hours of the game, so after that you've seen it all - even though what you saw was a a lot.

> skill tree points
You get these via skill points which you find via leveling stats or rare items, money is just to enhance weapons, buy gear etc. You are free to experiment with it all in the first region, but after that it gets hella expensive.

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8 Re: Nioh general discussion on Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:37 am

How are the bosses? Is it quantity over quality? That centipede boss looks like crap, got NG2 centipede boss flashbacks.

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9 Re: Nioh general discussion on Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:39 am

I generally find all of them entertaining except the attempts at 'set piece bosses' like the Centipede, Umi Bozu and the final boss. But generally speaking they are really good and fun : )

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10 Re: Nioh general discussion on Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:31 am

Can you change difficulties once you've unlocked another?

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11 Re: Nioh general discussion on Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:51 pm

Yes and no, the difficulty is the next in line. So it is only unlocked for that playthrough. That said, no-one makes another character, you generally just have the one since you can easily respec etc.

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12 Re: Nioh general discussion on Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:59 pm

Could you give me an overview of each weapon? general moveset and uses in each stance. You mentioned Tonfas have a gun attachment which sounds neat. Any cancels?

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13 Re: Nioh general discussion on Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:16 am

> katana
Generally the go-to weapon, medicore speed but has the iai move (sheath the sword for an extremely strong slash). Knowing how to cancel animations into it is paramount.

> kusarigama
Slow weapon, hits pretty hard but mostly hits a lot so great for getting debuffs on enemies. Is really strong against humanoids because it has grabs and sweeps.

> dual katana
Lots of parries, fast, good horizontal range, safe, has the one and only 'all' parry that can parry everything if timed right (even lasers and projectiles). 

> axe
Hits hard, lots of slow hard hitting moves and a few "if enemy is out of ki then x happens" attacks which are pretty cool. Never delved too deep into this though.

> spear
Great range, pretty fast attacks, really a good ranged and also close combat weapon with lots of combo potential. Has a jump which can be used to get over enemies and a stinger.

> odachi
The stance-dance weapon, each attack can be ended with a special that switches stances for you and allows you to keep going while other weapons need to flux-ki pulse to switch stances. Good damage too and long reach.

> tonfa
Low damage, but extremely fast and deals high ki damage. Really built around draining the ki of enemies and stomping them hard afterwards.

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14 Re: Nioh general discussion on Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:43 pm

Do the higher modes add more enemies per stage?

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15 Re: Nioh general discussion on Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:53 pm

No, they do 'mix it up' more though. Twilight versions of stages do add enemies on the other hand.
> difficulties
There are 5 now.
Way of the Samurai: the one you start at, you need to complete the main missions to progress.
Way of the Strong: harder enemies, acess to divine gear.
Way of the Demon: Red Enemies now appear in each stage, sometimes as a new enemy and other times to replace old ones. These have unique buffs, like "debuffs get the reverse effect", "lightning weapon", "remove buffs when they hit you" etc. These are also faster, have more ki and ki-recovery.
Way of the Wise: more of the above start appearing, DLC enemies also appear in the main game now.
Way of the Nioh: more of the above, the hardest enemies replace older ones. So you'll have a hard time.

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16 Re: Nioh general discussion on Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:22 am

I order a copy a day ago, should be here by this or next week for sure.

Can you cancel moves?

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17 Re: Nioh general discussion on Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:16 am

You can cancel longer animations with Ki Pulse or Flash Attack, some can be canceled via Ranged Cancel (pull out a bow and put it away again). You can also dodge out of certain recovery frames. But once the hitbox activates you cannot do anything for a sec.

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18 Re: Nioh general discussion on Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:09 pm

Could you explain enemy ki? Humans looks the same as yours, they run out they can't attack and are left open to attack. Yokai ki looks to function as armour.

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19 Re: Nioh general discussion on Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:23 pm

Unlike you enemies don't need Ki to take actions, but they are punished harder for losing it completely unlike you. In the original Alpha every enemy followed the same rules, in the final game it's a bit different.

> human ki
Humans use ki when attacking, a shit-load. They can rarely attack or dodge without it, because they'll just have 1/100 ki which is all they need. Once drained you can grapple them, or go for a knockdown into a final blow (always recommended, grapple is pointless outside of Izuna and Spear).

> boss human ki
Humans operate slightly different, they can always attack or dodge and some moves don't drain Ki, while others do. It's a matter of memorization. 

> Boss human Living Weapon Ki
Some bosses can enter living weapon like you. In this case, draining their Ki will revert them back to normal. You'll still be able to damage them, but they have a defense bonus.

> yokai ki
Yokai generally can't be stunned. But as a trade-off they cannot block your attacks, so they are always in hyper-armor. Drain their Ki fully and they'll lose this for a moment. Nearly all Yokai have a secret weakspot that, when hit / broken, drains their ki instantly. But you'd better make it count, since you can only do it once.

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20 Re: Nioh general discussion on Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:40 pm

What's a Nioh? Why is Will Irish? his real world counterpart was English. Does Nioh have Knacktics(TM)?

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21 Re: Nioh general discussion on Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:35 pm

> Nioh
Ni-Oh is japanese, roughly translates to Benevolent King - a fierce legendary warrior.

> William Adams
> Irish
Probably the voice over, though it could also be that that was simply the accent back then.

> Knacktics
Most related to iai, a move you execute by sheathing your sword and unleashing a strong blow. You can cancel part of those animations. Hurtboxes are also insanely well done in this game so you can do all sorts of fun stuff like roll under attacks (no i.frames required) or other neat experimental tricks.

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22 Re: Nioh general discussion on Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:31 am

I think Koei or whoever said their version of will was half Japanese/English so they must have changed him to Irish, bit odd, can't complain since that's such a rare choice for an Irish character, main character no less. It sounds like a real Irish guy too, he even speaks Gaelic and so does his fish lady friend(I can't write her name that shits nutz). Don't know why I'm saying all this.

Anyway, so I played nioh, beat onryoki, did the first side mission and roamed around a bit in the second level before I stopped cuz it was late m8. Pretty good so far, I used the dual katanas, i learned how to ki pulse quick but I've yet to utilise ki flux yet. Love the kid pulse stuff, simple timing mechanic for skilled players to gain back their ki and gain interest with ki flux too.

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23 Re: Nioh general discussion on Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:51 am

I beat region 1, really good so far. Anything I should do and know before changing regions? You mentioned level up costs more amrita on other regions.

What triggers Tome's dialogue, after I beat fake tachibana level I got some dialogue choices, every other time she said the same few responses with no dialogue options.

I'm using Ki flux now, I use low stance for quick dodges and hitstun some foes then to switch to high stance for big damage. For example, I low stance dual swords to rapid hit nue then while it's stunned switched to high for damage then low stance to safety.

So what triggers and changes twilight missions? I've only done the 1 that appeared after I did the fake tachibana mission.

Is it me or do all the characters at least in gameplay look a bit small? As in Will and all the enemies, namely humans look squashed in their proportions, it's really funny. They all look so stubby and stout.

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24 Re: Nioh general discussion on Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:08 pm

> amrita cost
No, it just changes when you level up. The higher your level the more you need to spend. There is a minor exploit that you get a tiny bit more amrita if you stay at level 1, no idea why this is a thing.

> dialogue options
I have no clue what triggers it, but you can gain patronage points this way.

> twilight
It switches per day, this is hardcoded into the game and it uses some weird space magic to decide what is up next as even when you fumble with the PS4's date AND disconnect the internet, it doesn't do weird things.

> small models
Could be a resolution error, as I have no idea what you're talking about. Pics?

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25 Re: Nioh general discussion on Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:26 am

The character models just look funny to me, maybe how the camera is placed. All the humans look sort of diminutive to me.

That giant centipede boss whom may or may not be the half retarded ancestor of the giant death worm in NG2 is a....trash boss. Like what was that supposed to be, an interpretive art piece!?

Umi bozu was better but still pretty lame, not much of a fan of set piece bosses, I prefer bosses to function more like larger unique enemies with expanded dangerous move sets. I do however love a unconventional boss due to the unique nature of them, like say nightmare in DMC1 or micolash in BB or The End in MGS3.

I have to say the weapon collision is annoying and unneeded, never liked it in souls and certainly not here. I understand TN used souls as less than subtle basis for Nioh but come on guys.

How much where they forced to make it like souls by Koei? I find it sad that TN has been reduced to this given how NG was its own thing and had significant funds/time/resources seems like Nioh lacks a vision like NG did.

That said I think souls was a fitting inspiration, feels very ps2 era ya know, In an endearing way. And its great it's done stupid well, likely due to gaming being a larger market than it ever was and souls craze which i hope ends soon. I hope now that koei has more faith in TN to make new action games, I feel like they needed a break from NG and experiment with a new(well decade long delay) ip.

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26 Re: Nioh general discussion on Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:09 am

Beat the spider lady boss, did a bunch of side missions. Messing around wit some new dual sword moves I got, and the iai move is sick too, the tech is legit. I love how it all synergises with the ki pulse mechanic, the simple wait for stamina to regen routine now becomes a meta game of timing your ki pulses to maximise your ki, remove yokai realms and switching to the right stances, very slick stuff.

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27 Re: Nioh general discussion on Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:02 am



This video is pretty well done, shows a lot of the more in depth tactics and abilities!

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28 Re: Nioh general discussion on Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:04 pm

Beat the ogress boss, did a bunch of side missions. Gonna have to try the iai draw, looks pretty dope.

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29 Re: Nioh general discussion on Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:31 pm

Haha, I rescued masamune in a side mission, love the continuity. So do enemy levels scale to each difficulty increase?

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30 Re: Nioh general discussion on Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:02 pm

Enemies scale to the mission level, so a skeleton in the first mission is weaker than one in the last. Same goes with higher difficulties.

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31 Re: Nioh general discussion on Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:41 am

Breezing through, no boss has really challenged me much so far, but maybe that's because I've got decent skills plus gear weapons with high stats, maybe I should use some lower level weapons, I'm sure the higher difficulties will be a greater challenge.

As for gear I'm always using the highest gear I have that's in the blue/A agility weight range, so I die in about 1-3 hits from most yokai and about 1-4 hits from humans.

I've been messing with the spear, it's got a real neat move set, like the pole jump which could lead to some cool setups. Does the pole jump have iframes?

Also what stat does the odachi and tonfa scale with.

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32 Re: Nioh general discussion on Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:15 pm

> challenge
It will come, the higher settings are pretty hard and some of the DLC bosses will wreck you hard, especially on Strong and higher.

> pole jump
Not a clue, but I don't think so. Might have some i.frames near the top of the jump and the falling attack has some too.

> Odachi / Tonfa
You can check in their stats, but I think odachi is STAM/STR/SKILL and Tonfa is DEX/SKILL/STR. Scaling isn't that important though. If you level Skill you can use pretty much every weapon under the sun.

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33 Re: Nioh general discussion on Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:41 pm

One triangle spear combo ended is an actual launcher, but can only be done on humans without ki, not sure if it works on some yokai.

So what do you think of TN removing juggles? Seems odd since you can launch enemies a few ways, they could have incorporated that further into Nioh's meta. It's optional anyway, so it's not harming anyone with its edition, you can easily be op from a plethora of other ways if balance was the issue. Or maybe the higher ups said souls have no juggle=Nioh no juggle.

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34 Re: Nioh general discussion on Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:02 pm

I think they removed it because, simply put, they didn't intend for it to be the case. Team Ninja and Capcom, Ninja Gaiden and Devil May Cry, have had rough relations by default. NG2 was full of minor insults towards DMC and Itagaki went as far as to laugh at the director of DMC3. 

Though both parties are now different, I feel that Team Ninja's soul is still in that place, they don't want that type of gameplay in their games. I'm pretty sure they still cringe at the shuriken combo videos in NG2.

That and mechanics wise it was easy to fix and would remove the instant-death on all humanoid bosses.

EDIT: apparently you can still juggle Okatsu, due to her being more light weighted than the others. Hm. Bizarre!

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35 Re: Nioh general discussion on Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:55 am

I beat it, really cool final level you get to team up with Okatsu and Hanzo to storm the front gate, the boss rush was ok and no real challenge as you face the easiest boss around(do those change per difficulty). Oda Nobunaga was a cool fight, but it ends half way through, do you get to fight him legit on higher modes? I'd like to fight him 1v1 without his wife in that side mission, those 1v2 missions are rough.

Kelly was a cool boss, what with his filthy western alchemy like he's from fucken Fullmetal Alchemist, then it turns out he's even a homunculus in the post final level in England. Orochi was neat boss, though a tad chaotic with all those heads attacking, also the snake with the 1 horn looks like pompadour.

I did the first 2 levels on WotS, no trouble so far, so what do I have to do to unlock the next mode?

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36 Re: Nioh general discussion on Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:31 am

Yeah the final rush is pretty cool, did you also get the DLC?

> Oda
He appears solo in the Abyss, that's about it. Other times he's always paired I believe.

> WotS
In the map menu you'll see a progress bar, beating missions fills that up. Once it is fully filled you'll get a message that you "unlocked Queens Eyes", beat that to go to the next difficulty in line :)

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37 Re: Nioh general discussion on Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:34 am

I'll get the dlc right quick. I was playing Mirrors Edg Catalyst.

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38 Re: Nioh general discussion on Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:01 pm

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39 Re: Nioh general discussion on Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:59 am

How do you unlock character skins?

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40 Re: Nioh general discussion on Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:47 pm

Generally by completing that character's missions or by beating them. The female skins require you to beat the game I believe.

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41 Re: Nioh general discussion on Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:55 pm

So if i respec, do i have to allocate amrita to levels to gain skill points again?

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42 Re: Nioh general discussion on Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:58 pm

Jup, you do. Otherwise you could get infinite points haha!

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43 Re: Nioh general discussion on Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:55 am

What level is the DLC balanced for? Sorry if I've asked already, still need to get the dlc, busy with GoW as of late.

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44 Re: Nioh general discussion on Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:26 am

DLC is mostly based on someone who beat Way of the Strong, so generally item level 150~ish. Not sure on player level as the experience system changed a lot when Wise went live.

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45 Re: Nioh general discussion on Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:59 am

I'll get back to this after GoW3. Dlc is on all difficulties? How do you get the new weapons? And the gun tonfa?

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46 Re: Nioh general discussion on Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:37 pm

So what was the grinding in Nioh before the Jin DLC boss? Was it ever there or just for hyper specific builds/completionists. I've been fine so far with the gear I find and level up maybe once every mission. But I've only started way of the strong.

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47 Re: Nioh general discussion on Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:17 pm

> DLC 
Every mission is available on all difficulties. But just like the other missions, you have to unlock the new difficulties by beating The Queens Eyes.

> new weapons
Should drop the second you get the DLC installed. The Tonfa Gun is a unique drop from the first boss in the Second DLC, once you beat him it will be added to the general drop pool.

> grinding
The game was broken originally in terms of balance, so people farmed The Two Kings day in day out for max gear. I remember farming it sometimes 5 hours in a few days just to max out my gear. I made this mistake only with the main game. I had full 160+15 divine gear, and the first piece of gear that dropped in the first DLC mission on Strong was 165+7 or something...felt like all my work was for nothing. So afterwards I kind of just beat the DLC once until they were all released.

Now for grinding most just do Abyss if they want. You forge your perfect gear and then defile it in the Abyss.

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48 Re: Nioh general discussion on Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:32 pm

Cleared the first 3 regions and the progress bar has barely budged. How much before it fills? Does the amount filled depend on if it's a main or side quest?

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49 Re: Nioh general discussion on Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:24 am

Yo! some regular mobs and bosses have new moves; regular yoki have a new grab move, can come out really fast and does big damage. Nue caught me off guard with a new grab move, it thrashes its head about then leaps forward, good thing about this boss is it leaves unending streams of yokai realm around to gain life back.

Does every enemy and boss have new moves on higher modes? Any more past WotS?

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50 Re: Nioh general discussion on Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:46 am

The grab from Nue is actually a normal move he has, he just really rarely uses it. Same with the Yoki grab. The percentages of them using those moves is increased.

They do gain new moves at Way of the Nioh I believe (or Strong), they were added in a patch. One of them is a spin-attack for the axe-skeleton.

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