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Dodging and it's uses in action games.

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1 Dodging and it's uses in action games. on Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:18 am

Gonna sleep now, let's focus on the more unique/unconventional dodging mechanics and obscure ones to start: samurai western and god hand.



Last edited by Gabriel Phelan Lucas on Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:17 am; edited 1 time in total

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2 Re: Dodging and it's uses in action games. on Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:46 am

Birdman


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I can't remember SW that well. It had a dodge roll which was pretty standard, a sort of spinning shift/sidestep that could dodge bullets and be used while moving foward to close the gap on enemies, and a bullet deflect with your sword. There were limitations to these but I've totally forgotten. I dont think any of them had i-frames either.

The majority of SW enemies have guns of some kind and you are usually surrounded. The bullet dodge let's you move into the line of fire and close distance. Actually I think the roll wasn't its own thing and was done from bullet dodge. Either way this system is quite unique. Usually in action games you're dodging defensively but in SW your going directly INTO the attack. While you can dodge through attacks to close distance in other action games, in SW is the actual design. It's what you do ALL the time.

Can we also include attacks or other types of movement that can be used to dodge?



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3 Re: Dodging and it's uses in action games. on Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:37 am

Sure. I don't know if this title was the best(can I edit titles?), I just want to talk about specifically dodging and their uses in action games so they often interplay between offence/defence/general movement options.

Yeh I picked SW because it looked super novel, I love that mechanic. It's a perfect way to mitigate all the ranged foes since it's moslty cowboys(Damn I need to get a copy).

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4 Re: Dodging and it's uses in action games. on Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:12 pm

Sure. I don't know if this title was the best(can I edit titles?), I just want to talk about specifically dodging and their uses in a
Press "edit" on your first post and you should be able to change the title.

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5 Re: Dodging and it's uses in action games. on Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:19 am

Birdman


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Come to think of it, not many action games have a dodge system quite like GH's with multiple hit zones.

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6 Re: Dodging and it's uses in action games. on Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:28 am

The only one I can think of is Yakuza Zero and Kiwami which have a weave too that can dodge high-hitting moves. But God Hand is pretty unique in it in terms of action titles. Games like Dead or Alive and Tekken have played with it too but not in terms of dodging. Granted I never really played any boxing or WWE of MMA games, do these types of games have these types of dodges?

I feel that unique forms of dodging will slowly make a comeback after the Souls-hype dies down. Right now it's all about this:

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7 Re: Dodging and it's uses in action games. on Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:30 am

Haha good stuff. I have a comment I'm working on about god hand but here is some (unfinished) fluff; Its combat and dodging emulates more up close, personal and intense human on human choreography of many martial arts films and their real world styles. God hands dodging works because of how close the camera is to gene like re4, as a opposed to most action games that have a a dodge move or two used for universally dodging most attacks since the camera is so pulled out, this is why enemies can be made more inhumanoid since your dodge is applicable against them. God hand is designed around humanoid opponents.

Combat sport games have mechanics that emulate dodging techniques like slipping, bobbing and weaving but they are more grounded and limited for sake of relalism than god hands hyperactive fighting styles(so sick they'll make you drool!)

Sorry gotta sleep now. I'm not good at long analysis writing I think I should use a bullet point/note type structure as this may breakdown my thoughts into clear readable parts.

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8 Re: Dodging and it's uses in action games. on Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:19 pm

Birdman


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The only other I can think of is Absolver's Windfall style which allows you to dodge high, low, and straight attacks with the tap of the right stick.

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9 Re: Dodging and it's uses in action games. on Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:33 am

God hand dodging is so unique it's often hard to describe, just think how hard that would be to make a game about, it's insane it even exits.

How is dodging in code of the samurai?

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10 Re: Dodging and it's uses in action games. on Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:33 am

Birdman


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I guess what makes it rare is what you said about GH's camera angle. Doesn't seem like a lot of actions games adopt that angle, probably due to how it limits view and movement.

In Code of the Samurai, did you see those white arrows appear? Simply pressing a direction makes you dodge. Those arrows pop up when an enemy attacks. You have to press a direction depending on the type of incoming attack. There are straight thrusts or vertical attacks that must be dodged to the side, and horizontal stuff you dodge backwards. Later enemies and bosses can launch combos and multiple enemies can attack in quick succession later on requiring continuous inputs.

These dodges also link into your own special combo strings but it's kinda weird and hard to explain.

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11 Re: Dodging and it's uses in action games. on Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:56 am

@birdman;Yeh code of the samurai dodges looked really cool, simple but stylish/efficient. So does it matter what direction you choose to avoid attacks?

Viewtiful joe has some novel high/low dodges.

How about nioh dodges?

PN03?

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12 Re: Dodging and it's uses in action games. on Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:02 am

Hajime no ippo games have boxing dodging mechanics since the games are based on the manga/anime which is about boxing.

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13 Re: Dodging and it's uses in action games. on Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:08 am

Birdman


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If you choose the wrong direction you get hit and can't use those flashy combo strings or special moves. For example, dodging a thrust by going backwards keeps you in its path and you get hit. Same with horizontal attacks covering you if you try to dodge to the side.

The arrow appears even offscreen and you can still dodge during your moves so it's possible to keep a long chain going in a group.

P.N 03 is awesome and has a few types of dodge.

*left right dodge for avoiding linear, straight line attacks, or dodging homing missiles at the last second. It's actually a two part dodge but I rarely use the second part. Useful if you are still in danger and want a little more space I guess.

*crouching - for sweeping horizontal fire or ducking behind cover or in trenches.

*crouch rolls - while crouching you can roll left, right, back and forward. Some enemies have attacks that are linear but hit low as well. I find this my least used dodge though.

*jumping - this is also used to dodge a few things. You can jump over horizontal fire and missile if you jump at the last second.

There aren't any i-frames either.

Nice example with VJ. I forgot about that.


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