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Vanquish: General discussion

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51 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:54 am

Yeah it's not finished yet obviously, this is my mind farting. On the bike to work I immediately thought "fuck forgot that" on multiple things. I mention PN03 and its arcade origins, but I really need to trim the article. Way too much fluff in there now.

And yeah God Hard is difficult. Try Hard maybe, lot more fun to toy around in there if you're inexperienced.

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52 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:51 am

I always play hard for vanquish. God hard is not so bad just a few places I can't deal with well n have to be a coward n hide in a corner n shoot from a distance. Hard is best for me it always is for action games.
I like a good challenge but need more room to goof up.

So would u do an article on origins of action games?examining various influences like shmups,beat em ups n fighting games to what they became now.

The transition to 3d was a game changer for action games.

That would clear so much for newbs n even veterans, if u just type best action games it's a complete mess of games that r mostly fps or if u type hack n slash games u may get dmc n bayo but no god hand. Too many get stuck in genres but don't see the underlying thread that links various action games together.

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53 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:08 am

So would u do an article on origins of action games?examining various influences like shmups,beat em ups n fighting games to what they became now.

I can but that's more of a history piece which takes a lot of time to write. I still have some other articles I want to do first but I'll note this one down in my todo-list.

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54 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:21 pm

It would help clear up the confusion of what action games r n can be.

That's why I refer to action games as the evolution of classic beat em ups n shoot em ups of various types as opposed to hack n slash which is in inaccurate.

Sengoku neo geo beat em ups r played with a man with a sword, u can also transform into a tengu demon with a pole arm n a ninja dog also, that's sengoku1-2 gimmick.

But say pno3 n vanquish take more from shoot em ups like alien soldier, gunstar heroes n sin & punishment don't u think?

I'll have to find other examples of influences on modern action games.

Of course ninja gaiden black took from classic nes platformer ninja gaiden as well as the beat em up ninja gaiden n dead or alive mechanics r influences.

I'll make a topic for that, action game origins, progenitors of modern action games.

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55 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:57 am

I'm glad u don't give scores for games, that's something I find is only detrimental to a review, giving criticisms n praise of something should be enough, why bother even writing a review or having opinions or thoughts if u gonna slap a number on the end next to some bullet points of said review.

here is what this thing is n what I like/dislike about it in some detail through careful analysis. Or simply stating a games mechanics is too hard for most.

I only care for reviews if they harm a game that deserves sales n praise. It's sad how something masterful as vanquish gets shafted when it's so damn good n just all round fun. Sega also didnt seem to bother marketing it much at all. I was only aware of vanquish due to it being in my local block buster.

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56 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:53 pm

Vanquish has a strong origin in old shooters, going back as far as Space Invaders or SpaceWar! if you want to talk real classics haha. Ninja Gaiden has clear and obvious connections to Dead or Alive which was really great at the time before 4 and later entries started ruining it. Itagaki wanted to pay homage but also wished to really change the formula and I approve, while the inspirations are clear the game is very different from the original NES title (or even moreso from the old-style arcade release).

On reviews, it's really hard. Most reviewers probably are allowed to play a game for 2 days before they have to quickly ram out an article - it can be really stressful. I wrote for a few websites before this gig as a freelance writer and would generally get a message "this game is out, buy it, review it within the next 2-3 days if you can". I had to review X-com: Enemy Unknown without having finished it, making guesses on how it worked near the end: a painful thing to do and one of the (many) reasons I quit. 
On the numbers, it works. People have zero attention-span and just want a quick validation on their purchase or something to hate on with their friends. Reading is for people who have time (and they never do). Stinger Magazine is a direct opposite of that and I wish to keep it that way. 

On Sega, they had a strict policy of only marketing Sonic games and just let the other games ... do whatever. It was very sad to see great titles get zero marketing. I never would've played Bayonetta if it didn't come with my magazine-subscription...

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57 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:13 am

Birdman


Moderator
Sorry for the off topic post. I just wanted to ask you about your reviewing experience.

Are there rules as to what you're allowed to say or how you say it? The reason I ask is because even with a limited amount of time with a game, every review I've every read states everything as fact based on their limited experience.

Why does no one ever say things like 'this was as much as I could figure out with the time allowed', or 'there's definitely much more too it'?





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58 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:05 am

@birdman I suppose it wouldn't seem very professional and informative for the site they where reviewing for, as they have to keep up a status of authority, from what i know many places do have a rules on what to say, sometimes I think reviewers get sent to reviewer camps for a day to play a game for a bit.

In the case of Jim sterling he is just being an opinionated arse hat as he sometimes is, though he likely didn't have long with vanquish also.

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59 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:40 pm

Off-topic extravaganza: To answer your question, it's more an unwritten rule. Even on Stinger I try to keep my opinion separate and put it in Opinion Style near the end. The core of a reviewer/critique is to observe, note facts and make conclusions based on that. By saying it as a fact you show confidence and professionalism, leaving your personal taste behind as well you can to dig into the material at hand.
 
It's a big irony but the deal is that sites are supposedly objective, so they just post facts. Which is absolute bullcrap, as they are beyond subjective. I can ramble on about this but I'll just make a short bulletpoint list on why these things are bad:

  • most sites have a ton of reviewers including freelancers, leading to bad consistency. Vanquish got a bad score on Destructoid, but the PC release got a raving review because it was another guy, same with God Hand.
  • games are subjective, period - as is any other art. What reviewers are 'missing' is the writing/art background in which you are taught that the job of a critique is to analyze it in cohesion with other contemporary material and also look towards the past and future and how much of an influence it will end up being.
  • most reviewers are either gamers that made it their job, reviewers that ended up talking about games, video-editors that decided to get in on the fun or any mix of these three. Very rarely you'll find what you need: a gamer who's a writer with preferably a background in (game)design. While I can write decent fluff on games as proven by Stinger, I'd probably be on a whole 'nother level if it were about comicbooks since that was my actual degree, namely Narrative Illustration. 


If you're interested here's one old review I managed to find:
http://eonculture.com/xcom-enemy-unknown-review/

EDIT: reading that review now hurts haha. So many mistakes and I remember I never even played the multiplayer, just quickly looked up a match online.

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60 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:09 am

Beat god hard(70deaths) with my god hands, wait...wrong game...close enough.

Do you think they based the ARS suit of the god hands, as in the actual god hands,That would be funny. It's the fact that Olivia's clan had the actual god hand arms in a case that gets me, a clan protecting a pair of magical arms in boxes.
Also I think those statues are meant to be professor Pangloss, they have canes, that's what they hold up at you when they turn red.

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61 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:22 am

I wouldn't look that far into it. Mikami stated he was pretty 'done' with God Hand and while fun doesn't hold it as high as the community does. He liked it a lot but Vanquish was a new project with lots of new people. Yes there are some winks and nods but try not to look for God Hand in everything it has haha ;p

And you beat Vanquish on God Hard with only 70 deaths total o_O? Or was that a joke?

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62 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:53 pm

God hand nods are more my head canon as an aside haha, I do love those god hands.

70 deaths is what the end game results screen showed, I wasn't keeping count but it was a few moments that gave me trouble, rest was about the same as hard. It was more annoying than hard due to how high damage is and how easily AR is drained if you so much as get love tapped by a gorgie, regular gorgie fire was my bane.
I had to be really lame in some areas and fire from a distance to be safe as I wasn't skilled/confident enough to charge in a lot of the time against big groups,I still did when areas were available to use as cover and such.

Bosses: they were mostly the same like argus, viper and unknown being about same level of challenge, just had to be more alert when they attack is all and shoot off the extra guns on argus.

Burns was more annoying than hard, I died a good few times to him, more so his goons as burns is easy by his lonesome(whiskey a go-go baby).

Bogeys where legit tough fun I didn't have too many deaths against them I'll have to check my results individually. Bogeys are fun to fight since their attacks are well telegraphed and avoided with careful fire,dodges and cover use, really good boss I was super into it on god hard, they where fair but tense. It does help that checkpoints are frequent and ammo refills upon death, don't think I was using grenades as much as I should have early on.

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63 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:23 pm

70 deaths is insanely good man. The general average on first God Hard runs is around 500 deaths, some going into the thousands. Many players can't even get 70 deaths. So yeah, color me impressed haha.

Most people quit at the Bogies as they can be downright mean. It's a really scary fight.

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64 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:18 pm

Well I'd still only ever say I'm decent haha, I've no need to boast beyond acknowledging that I did something and preferably efficiently. I'm sort of blunt and a tad pragmatic like that, I play for a good challenge and above all fun.
I don't actually like the idea at being untouchable in games usually, I like a bit of back n forth ya know. But if it happens it happens. It does take a lot of effort to untouchable, I do like being that good sometimes, that's true mastery then it's on to speed runs I suppose but that takes the fun out of it for me, I really like to dick around for ages at times, just test a move and watch and listen to the animations.

The game I've died most in is god hand, good thing it doesn't give rankings like dmc and bayonetta, I don't care for scores it's not what I play for, I like beating doods up I don't care for how long it took or how many orbs I farmed.

So in jest I did the thing yay.

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65 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:23 pm

I love the bogeys fight, it was much less of a bother than being tapped by hordes of mooks. I found regular battles to be less fun due to all the cross fire of mooks, just 2 bosses with destinct tells in an open arena was refreshing from that, almost FAIR. Or something I dunno. 2 flying bosses is easier to deal with than regular jobber bots for me haha, bit backwards.

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66 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:26 pm

Well you should be proud man, that's one insane accomplishment. Even Bick had a total of nearly 200 deaths on just the Twin Bogey fight. My first death-count was 516 on the whole run and my record is 7 deaths. Goes to show a game is different for everyone. On the topic of untouchable, me neither. I don't like playing no-damage as it gives this really boring play style for me. I want to take risks, do stupid stuff and experiment. 

Finally nailed down the Vanquish review. Had a good thought on the bike and managed to sneak it in, makes the review better now since there's actually a negative point in there - as Vanquish isn't perfect either. Now I just want to style it and let it rest a bit, with a little luck I can publish it before I go to Japan on Friday but I'm not making any promises.

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67 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:02 am

I'll just put this here fam.

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68 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:25 pm

How are the Dlc weapons? Their melee moves?

Do you know if I can turn them off or if they are always on? if the latter I might have to download it to my hard drive and not memory unit.

Also I agree with how the less useful melee moves should only drain a set amount of meter, no use to use the weaker useless ones otherwise.

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69 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:25 am

This guy gets it:




Love that vanquish is getting some love, I'm sure turbo button and gamingbrit have sold a few copies for sure.

Vanquish: or how to use cover in your cover shooter.

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70 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:45 am

Yo I beat challenge 6.

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71 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:29 pm

> DLC weapons
They are generally considered to be among the best. You can disable them by uninstalling them, on the PC you can't though.

> challenge 6
Good job man!

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72 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:54 am

I was messing around with crystal viper and he has a bunch of cool moves he rarely uses; a jumping slash it does after a electric zap, a hand grab that leads into that odd qte sometimes and that barrier he uses and sometimes shoots at you though I think those are 2 different moves(you can see it's skeleton when it shoots its big orb cool detail). I found that you can stun lock viper with the LFE(no brainer I guess), moreso you can stop it's barrier with LFE; viper kept activating it's barrier and I kept cancelling it with LFE, pretty funny.

Also I haven't messed around with those whirly bird mini chopper flying robots much, don't know all their moves in their ground form. They seem to have a lot of life when grounded and have bullet proof armour in areas.

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73 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:33 am

Yeah most of those moves are pretty rare, he also gains a few new ones that are God Hard exclusive such as being able to cancel his dash and other moves into a jumping-slash to catch you off-guard, pretty neat addition. The grab-qte is insanely rare and I, to this day, have no clue on how to trigger this move as sometimes it just deals damage and that's it. Any clue?

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74 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:55 am

The god hard extra moves I've never even seen, bit of a waste since they only fought twice and second is alone with marines. challenge maps seem locked to hard which is a shame. Damn vanquish and every other action games needs a custom map maker, just have it be dlc that's a set amount of maps and give you the assets to customise and set enemies as you please. A debug test room/mode also; nier:automata has both(and custom controls)which is really cool, shame its such a poor game.

The rare grab I think you mentioned in a prior comment, something about you and the viper being low life. I'm not sure about the grab but BigVEE left some substantial comments on your vanquish vids, one I recall was about viper. Viper works best as a stealth unit so they need other mobs to distract you.
Viper has killed me and caught me off guard many times in challenge6 so respect to viper. What do you think about the running slash prompt?
It makes them pretty trivial but if they removed it and they changed vipers ai to do more moves other than stealth and running slash they would be more of a threat. Its way too easy to bait out its 3-hit slash combo it does after its de-cloaked. It's odd as no other boss has such an exploitable qte.

I really want to see a viper/unknown team up. Viper/bogey. 2 vipers and tank.

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75 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:51 pm

It's a bit surprising that they decided to make such changes to certain foes on God Hard but have them barely appear. It is that I know this from the guide, otherwise I'd never have guessed they'd made these changes. Would agree with the map-maker content, damn that'd be cool.

About BigVee, yeah we discussed it a bit and he too wasn't able to recall how to exactly trigger it. The mystery of Vanquish ha! The running-slash is a bit too horrible for the Viper in my opinion, mostly because the QTE has no challenge to it. You can (and a lot of players do) just mash Square while playing and you'll get it all the time. It would be fine if he'd just do it once at a certain percentage or that you'd only be able to deal him damage in his 'broken state' and this was one way of triggering said state - but as it stands now it's just too strong a punish for a move that is slow and won't kill you anyways.

That said other bosses have big melee-antics too. You can QTE destroy Argus if you destroy limbs in a clever way and melee overheats can be canceled using cutscenes, the Buzzard has a hitbox for melee on his arms which doesn't trigger overheat and the Bogeys can be 'headshotted' with a boost-melee if you're really good.

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76 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:03 pm

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77 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:20 am

I'm both hoping and not hoping. Like I love Vanquish I really really freak'n do, but that would have me own it a billionth time. That said 60fps yes please.

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78 Re: Vanquish: General discussion on Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:52 am

I have to say how smart the choice for regenerating life over life bar and life pickups is, coupled with other careful design decisions to avoid the typical wait for red jam to clear from the screen as I hide in a corner from foes. Like how you can use boost dodge for extra distance, speed lower hitbox and iframes along with slomo to remain in action even if life is red. Also I think slomo regens life faster which is another use for slomo and meter use since life regen happens passively you can focus on combat.

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