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1 The Evil Within on Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:33 am

Birdman


Moderator
So I saw you guys discussing this in the welcome thread and thought I'd make a dedicated topic rather then continue posting in the welcome thread. Let's use this thread to discuss everything including mechanics and tips. There are actually a lot of mechanics I would like to discuss.

TEW was, at the time, my most anticipated game EVER. I'm sure I waited 5+ years, ever since it was just a rumor. A return to survival horror headed by Mikami himself. I was freakin' dying waiting for info and would watch those short trailers over and over.

Oh man. When more info started to emerge with interviews and such, it looked more and more like a scarier version of Haunting Ground.

I remember release date. I was watching streams that kept getting taken down. I didn't care how bad the players were. Then release in my country. I didn't have a car at the time and took the bus. Longest 30 mins (15 there and back) of my life. On the way home I was just staring at the case, in disbelief that it was finally in my hands.

Sadly, it was somewhat disappointing. I liked it much more than what the majority seemed to, but I was still disappointed once I'd finished it. The first playthrough was quite scary and tense for me. I spent almost the entire game crouch-walking in fear.

What disappointed my in the end was lack of enemy variety, entirely 'human' types outside of bosses. No monster dogs or anything. And then the fact that I thought the boss encounters that you run from would not be so scripted. In HG, they can appear almost anywhere, and are attracted to any noise you make. I was really hoping for something like this. It started off looking that way with the chainsaw guy but that was pretty much it.

The DLC was damn good though, if only for the spotlight creature. That thing scared me to death. Also the highest difficulty, Kurayami mode, is very interesting in that the game is now entirely (well indoors at least) in darkness.

Overall I think it's a good horror game. I still have some runs I want to do. I'll quote some points of interest from the other discussion.

* a 'multitool' bow, which I just find really lacking. Weapon has no impact or feeling of power.

I didn't mind this. I found the arrow types reasonably varied and interesting. What is you issue with this exactly? Lacking in terms of amount of ammo type? It definitely is more a utility tool which would explain the lack of impact and power.

it has many issues that stem from poor design choices and forced game trends

I was also disappointed with the average stealth. It's not horrible, but still. It felt too similar to others, namely TLoU.

movement is clunky, imprecise and many many animations are too long leaving u open to attacks, especially when u seem to have no iframes on anything, so u can be struck while in a sneak kill, stun state from a grab or other attacks.

This is pretty much what survival horror has always been though. Movement could be better, I agree, though being left open to attacks make sense in a game like this. It isn't trying to be an action game like RE4.

many bosses and even mobs have unclear encounters such as the blood man in the burning barn, which isnt a boss fight so much as it is survive them plus infinitely spawning mobs for x amount of time.

RE4 does this too.

too much reuse of mobs and bosses also, not very many enemy types at all.

Totally agree and is my top complaint.

mobs seem to not react clearly to your attacks as sometimes they have armor and dont even budge, powering through your attacks.

I believe there is a mechanic behind this but I've forgotten the details.

Enemies with guns r also an unfair type due to hitscan, especially with how much liberal use these types get late game.

They can be annoying, but I found they never use their guns from long range. If you are moving slowly through and area you can identify them before they see you and prioritize them.

cross bow was poorly implemented, tacked on and lacks impact,

I don't agree with this. It is a tool for situational use, and you have a whole set of guns if you want impact.

I agree on the bow and stealth. Everything feels very 'this is popular now, so put it in'.

I'm guessing you guys are referring to the TR reboots? I'm not familiar with any other modern games with bows but I don't play many modern games. I also noticed that 'hide and seek' gameplay is considered overdone now. Looking this up I find all these indie games that have saturated the market with the same mechanic. I haven't played anything with this type of mechanic since the golden years of Clock Tower 3, Haunting Ground, and Siren. Sad that this awesome gameplay concept is now considered repulsive and repetitive due to this.

Going by Evil within 2 gameplay trailer i think it might come closer to what it could have been

I'm so hyped by the trailer. Scared the crap out of me.

which mainly has the same mob type with little variation(fat guys, masked guys, steel masks, shotgun guys, sniper guys,crossbow guys, melee guys, invisible guys, ruvik clone guys lots of the same sort of guy).

Yeah exactly. Just a whole lot of guys lol. With no real variation other than looks and whatever random weapon they were carrying. Funny, I actually would look at what they were holding rather than them. The weapon was the real enemy type lol.

.the last areas of chapter 15 r visually interesting in how the whole sky box and area is filled with eyes and brain textures.

That area made me feel legitimately ill. I couldn't eat my dinner.

also i dont think mikami is directing so i hope he is working on something if he can, its an awful waste to not use such a skilled director, guess well have to leave that to bethesda.

I heard it's being directed by the guy who did the DLC. Honestly I have no idea who he is, but I loved the DLC.

really it needs to be allowed to develop its ideas and mechanics to something other than re4 or last of us rip off.

Indeed. Do you have anything in mind?

One thing that is important, we have to let go of Resident Evil 4 getting a spiritual successor.

I don't think we'll ever get a decent horror game with any of the old cast at all, ever. Reason being those CGI movies. Have you seen Vendetta? Look at what Leon and Chris can do. I was laughing most of the movie. They are pretty much superhero level now.

Did you play Resident Evil 7?

I played it.

I will consider some stuff to post on the mechanics of TEW. Feel free to post any tips or strats you guys have.



Last edited by Royta/Raeng on Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Edited Topic Title)

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2 Re: The Evil Within on Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:07 am

Thnx for the topic bird man ill have a think this evening, i agree on many areas that i misjudged and hyperbolized some issues, namely the cross bow.

haunting ground is an interesting example of survival horror, i didnt expect that type those types of persuer mechanics but i can see how that would have been a take away from trailers n parts of its gameplay. like chapter10? with ruvik in the mansion.

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3 Re: The Evil Within on Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:51 am

For now this vid may explain some of my issues clearly:

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4 Re: The Evil Within on Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:11 pm

Birdman


Moderator
Hmm.

Some of the points are valid. But I don't fully agree with some, and not at all really with others. Seemed largely nitpicking or just upset that he died so much (which admittedly you will in Akumu) but quite a few things are solved with more knowledge of the mechanics.

I'm definitely not saying the game is without flaws though. Just a different view I guess.
I'll try to quickly go over some observations I made while watching the video.

Letterbox effect on gameplay such as traps being hard to see

This will vary person to person, but I never had any issue with it. I didn't even notice until it was pointed out to me. I don't recall ever stepping on a beartrap or hitting a wire because the letterbox obscured it. This may be more because I was shaking in my boots and playing super slow and carefully whereas some people might rush a bit more. Not saying the letterbox can't obscure something, but just doesn't seem like a huge issue at all to me. I can put this one down to opinion I guess.

About Laura being obscured by the letterbox borders

Can happen, but only when she gets super close which is something you should never allow, especially when you know she has a OHK. Never actually had this issue. I did have to aim the camera down at times but it always felt fine. Having said that, I'm all for the patch that removed the borders and I agree there's not need for them and their removal is an improvement. Just never found them that bad.

Letterbox seriously affecting second Laura fight.

I don't want to sound like a dick, but it seem the player just wasn't good at setting her up in this fight. You have to time your shots on the switches to activate the fire streams to when she's approaching. It's not random or luck. I think the OHKs started to piss him off a bit.

Pistol bad accuracy.

This is a thing. I've had the same happen quite a few times, though it was more on the PS3 version and may have had something to do with the horrible framerate. On PS4 it seemed much better. Still, it's unnecessary, and I hate anything that takes the control out of my hands. Did I actually get that headshot or was it the RNG? or my accuracy stat? Why only on the pistol?

I had an interesting conversation about this with a friend who was in the military and has fired both pistols and rifles, who said pistols were harder to be accurate with at long range but with with a rifle he could hit anything a certain distance away. It made me think back to Silent Hill, which I played a little of. I remember reading that the handgun would occasionally miss and was attributed to Harry's inexperience with firearms. I also read accuracy goes up or down depending on the lighting in the area you're in. I never tested this as I read it years after playing but it's an interesting mechanic if true.

No idea if that's what's happening here. Sebastian would have to have the exp considering his occupation, but maybe they just wanted it to be slightly inaccurate in general to be realistic. I read that the accuracy stat only affects the sway, but the sway never had anything to do with the random bullet trajectory. I've fired in a hallway at a Haunted, aimed directly at its chest, no chance of missing, and I saw the bullet impact at the far end of the hall near the ceiling. It's just bizarre.

Roy, do you think Mikami would answer this question on Twitter as to why they made the pistol like this? I'm going with them trying to be realistic with the firearms to some degree. Consider that the shotgun doesn't have this stat because it's...a shotgun. Neither does the rifle as it has the scope and high power. Also the magnum has the same issue as the handgun which makes sense as they are similar. All evidence points to my supposition.

Comparing to RE4.

I get that comparisons will come up, and there are similarities, but basically saying 'Leon can do so why can't Sebastian' doesn't really make any sense.

Complaint about fast, erratic enemy approach and headshots not being OHK.

An issue if you are going for pistol headshots with the accuracy problem, and the enemy is running in while twisting and turning. But so what? Employ a new strategy. If headshots aren't guaranteed with pistols (they weren't in RE4 either, or any RE) then there are other options.

If you shoot an enemy in the leg while they're running, you trip them up for a free match drop. Same tactic works in RE4. Problem solved. If you have no matches. you still have the enemy grounded and can go for a headshot while they're down. I love this mechanic, how shooting different body parts gets different reactions.

Matches being random.

I've actually never had this happen and have played through a few times. Judging by the video example, it honestly looks like either a glitch, some sort of animation conflict, or the enemy recovered fully just as he dropped the match.

Not sure about this though. Just know it NEVER happened to me. The hanging one looks easy to test. Could be a positioning thing. There is a range and you can be anywhere within it, or even on the border of, when you drop a match. Honestly can't say anything for here but I think if was actually a thing, it would happen to everyone.

Burning enemy's 'last stand'.

I have no issue with this. Some enemies may run and try to grab you before they burn. Makes it more interesting. After the first time I had that happened, I would make some distance any time a standing enemy got caught with a match.

No i-frames

Disagree. No point showing Leon kicking a group. Mikami obviously wasn't going for the same thing. No i-frames means you have to think about your actions. He then shows using a valve handle while in a room full of enemies. I know that room and you would clear them out before attempting to open the gate.

Stealth kill animation being too long.

He used a flash bolt on a group of 4 enemies. Killed 3 before the 4th recovered. 3 out of 4. What's to complain about?

Cancelling out of stealth kills.

Would be kind of odd in a survival horror like this in my opinion. Showing Raiden's stealth kill and cancelling into blade mode isn't really saying anything.

His observation on Seb's animation while disarming traps.

The fact that Seb stands up briefly before disarming and can be killed by the spinning blade. Yeah that's a thing and you need to be super careful if disarming traps in that part. Looks like an oversight as he said. On the other hand, it's not a huge deal.

Killed by proximity mine while performing stealth kill.

I've never been in that situation, but it looks bad. As to why I haven't, I don't know. Could me my slow approach during first play-through, or maybe I shot that guy, or saw the bomb first and shot it to blow the guy away.

About hitstun.

So if you get shot, like in the bus segment where you are surrounded by guys with guns, you take hitstun, which causes you to be vulnerable to follow up hits? Umm...that sounds like every game with combat, ever.

Reference to speed runners and challenge runners.

And Akumu has been done with no upgrades and no damage. So while it may be seriously unbalanced, it's all doable.

Melee not being good. More reference to RE4.

Again, it's not RE4. Melee only works to get an enemy out of your face. If you do it in succession, they hit back. This is to stop it being abused. I think it may have been intended to prevent it being used like we would in RE4. I don't understand why it matters whether a melee only run is impossible of not.

Burning house is hard.

I agree, it's evil on Akumu and I wonder if they fully tested the balance because not a single part, not even later parts are this hard. Even so, it's made much easier if you've saved resources and have some good bolts.

Next area with Joseph.

I just did that as I usually would, by quickly sniping the arrow launcher guys.

Hidden traps on Akumu.

Yeah those are a pain. Not really difficulty at all, just irritating.

Machine gun guy and closing door.

Not even close to as bad as he made it sound. You can throw grenade in there from cover, and you can also time a shot pretty easily if you just observe.

Anything after is super nitpicky, like what those spinning blade wheels on the floor are symbolic of, and I don't care for story in games so can't comment on that.

So this ended up way longer than I thought it would but whatever. I love talking about this stuff.

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5 Re: The Evil Within on Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:58 pm

If I could plus one you I would Birdman. Good call!

Want me to make an EW board just in case? Or leave it here? Will RnR more later.

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6 Re: The Evil Within on Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:10 pm

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7 Re: The Evil Within on Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:55 pm

Very well put bird man, I would agree with u much the same.

I didn't have the stated issues the critique had and I was more your line of thinking and playing through out it. Many tactics r much the same as re4 which I carried with me throughout.

The random shot misfires have no place in a game with such fine degree of aiming; re4, dead space and shadows of the damned have same types of aiming(laser pointer) but misfire is solely on player aim.
so this issue is ok for SH and re1-2-3 which is more auto aim and less accurate due to the perspective.(I think siren has a type of aiming mix of auto aim and fine aim)

I'm used to using cover to block fire from many shooters by now also, re4 has this also with bow ganados and A.J.

Machine gun guys r dressed in tactical swat gear from my experience so they can be destinquished better from other guys that would not look the same but carry guns and bows.

Sebs movements r not as precise as they could be leading to improper spacing in places, I got used to this and it's mainly how he doesn't stop n go as accurately as say Leon would and that's due to tank controls which not all survival horror has nor need. Dead space has more free movement and is more accurate than seb for example.

Melee is similar to dead space and used effectively much the same way as a last resort and to knock stumbling foes down for effective match kills.
It's sort of like trying to do a no damage run in god hand due to mechanics not functionally permitting that, which is fine. Such an assumption is more an issue from thinking it's exactly re4 melee when it's not.

Dead space is a markedly similar take on survival horror.

siren also is a fair comparison, has stealth mechanics that r more in depth and novel than EW.

I'd rather only bring up story related factors when they contribute to actual gameplay. Kinda why re4 n god hand n platinum like to pull big shit eating grins with us when it comes to discussing story in game design as games,right?

Games I like cut to the chase on what matters to them;gameplay is gameplay and cutscenes r cutscenes, don't integrate the two if it's intrusive to gameplay as it will effect the overall design and gameflow. That's why games tend to CUT to SCENES so we have the option to skip them, and an argument of unskippable walking sections is also in favor of unskippable cutscenes.

I do value story in games but not at the cost of gameplay usually unless it's well done very specialized examples, which can be tricky. That up for another discussion I suppose.



Last edited by Gabriel Phelan Lucas on Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

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8 Re: The Evil Within on Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:07 pm

Watched the whole video - something I don't see myself doing often with 30 minute runtimes but he made some good points which were exactly the type of things I'd hate in a game. But I didn't notice them. Which I believe was the point for me. I just wasn't feeling that game so I wasn't paying any attention to what was happening under the hood. I cannot imagine doing the entire game no-damage on Akumu mode (pretty cool that they did the idea); would feel that a game would need to be brilliantly designed to keep this fair. Getting no-damage on Resident Evil 4 is doable but imagine doing it on games like Vanquish, Metal Gear Rising (one stray bullet) or Ninja Gaiden 2 is just a painful thought in and of itself. Higher difficulties are rarely tested unless designed for that difficulty in the first place (see also Ninja Gaiden and Vanquish). Games like Call of Duty or Mass Effect 3 are prime examples of where a slider was adjusted and 'they'll figure it out' was said - not realizing that there was a final cinematic encounter in Mass Effect 3 where due to the higher setting you could only progress through luck thanks to a minor enemy now killing you in the time it took to lift your freak'n gun.

Birdman wrote:If you do it in succession, they hit back. This is to stop it being abused.
To be fair, after I found this out my go to strategy (on my first run through mind you) was hit-hit-walk forward past them-turn-hit-hit-repeat on one on one fights for easy kills. I liked how Sebastian was detailed less powerful than Leon in the way he holds his gun or refuses to use that freak'n machette he's wielding but instead goes for ye 'ol pistolwhip. He's an oldsk00l cop who probably prefers to call his enemies "dirtbag".

Birdman wrote:So if you get shot, like in the bus segment where you are surrounded by guys with guns, you take hitstun,
I think you misinterpreted this, there's 'story events' that when triggered 'shake the world' which cause Sebastian to stagger. During this time enemies don't stagger and you are just at the game's mercy. 

Birdman wrote:Again, it's not RE4.
I do believe this is the big point and one that also did a lot of harm to the excellent Shadows of the Damned, people expected it to be RE4 again but better or just more of the same. Instead they got something new. It took me a long long time to 'get that' if you know what I mean.

Birdman wrote:Roy, do you think Mikami would answer this question on Twitter as to why they made the pistol like this? 

Unless we can translate the question to Japanese, doubtful. His Twitter is mostly him doing nature-walks or visiting family and restaurants; very little work related stuff. My Japanese is at a decent level but this is not a question I am trained for haha! If we're talking realism, I don't feel it. It feels like such a weird choice to make RNG a factor in a title like this, not something he'd do. Sounds more like a Yoko Taro thing haha.
If it's less on the PS4 than the PS3 it could be a framerate issue. Also the element of how the bullet is fired and registered. For instance in Max Payne you actually shoot bullets from a gun, but in most games it's just binary; you press the button and if the cursor+sway=bodyofenemy he's dead. Could be that certain parts of the formula are tied to the framerate (generally done in such a way, most games are code-hell which is why ports or updates are so messy). I don't know but was the game ported at the last minute? Was it always a PS4 titled or a PS3 titled that got updated last minute to launch on the big new system?
Also if they were going for realism, why is the shotgun a close-range weapon only? This is a videogame myth; it's a mid-range weapon. 

Birdman wrote:Have you seen Vendetta? Look at what Leon and Chris can do. I was laughing most of the movie. They are pretty much superhero level now. 

I haven't and want to keep it that way haha. I recall seeing the first CGI film and thought it was 'okay' until I saw the "Leon is a dick" image which ruined it all for me (can't seem to find it anymore, but it basically took apart the movie in a fun way). What I genuinely dislike about the films is how Leon is so unlikable. In RE2 he's just a generic rookie but in RE4 he's refreshing. His jokes, quips, stance - guy's an honest to god 90's action hero. Then in the movies he's suddenly "mister serious".

Birdman wrote: I'm not familiar with any other modern games with bows but I don't play many modern games.

It was everywhere at the time. Last of Us, Crysis 3, TR reb00ts, Far Cry 3, Assassins Creed 3 etc. Shit was everywhere for a while. Kotaku even wrote a piece on it (a horrible one). 
http://kotaku.com/5991211/video-games-have-become-obsessed-with-bows-and-arrows-but-which-games-bow-is-best
Birdman wrote:many bosses and even mobs have unclear encounters such as the blood man in the burning barn, which isnt a boss fight so much as it is survive them plus infinitely spawning mobs for x amount of time.

RE4 does this too.
Again, I barely managed to scrape through EW; so take this with a grain of salt since compared to that game I've played RE4 all my damn life. But where? I cannot recall a single instance.
During the opening segment there's multiple ways to deal with the fight, you can:
- kill everything
- survive for x-minutes depending on difficulty
Both things you will do regardless. The cabin fight is just a fight; it's not unclear what you must do. Kill. Survive. Not one second during that engagement when I was 14 and scared shitless (auto-correct wished to turn this into shirtless, which made me laugh) did I not know what to do. There's a gattling gun fight in the castle but the camera clearly shows the key around his neck. The truck leading up to the castle has low-hp and the angle makes it very likely you'll kill the trucker by accident and win. Maybe the first U3/IT fight could count or the Krauser encounter as they are more puzzle bosses. I remember going to Gamespy (damn nostalgia) as a kid to look up strats for U3; no idea back then on how to deal with him. So yeah, not trying to be mean but I don't see anything as bad as "here's a guy who will randomly appear and kill you" or "you're stuck in a wall of blood with random dudes everywhere, figure it out". My most hated part in EW that made me rage (which is rare) was the fish; I couldn't figure out how that part worked so I kept getting eaten alive.

Birdman wrote:What is you issue with this exactly?

Talking about the bow, I don't like the feeling of impact or immersion. I know bows can be lethal and all, but seeing a guy walk around with a damned crossbow just feels weird to me. And the impact too. There's no 'oomph' to firing it.

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9 Re: The Evil Within on Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:00 pm

Cod black ops 3 actually has a insta kill mode and it can be done. its kinda insane but theirs enough mechanics allow for it.




to note roy i saw the EW fish part clearly as u can see corpses hanged above and can use them as bait to distract fishes, that section was simple for me but yeh i can see how some might catch on faster to certain things.

Clear tells and informing players as well as re4 doescan be quite tricky, it's about making options more present for the player so as to avoid trail on error and feeling that they have been cheated by things not properly presented to them.

Let's remember how brutal and lacking many in game tutorials god hand stage 1-1 seems.
makes the player have to become acclimated so quickly while struggling to grasp the basics and even beat stage1-1. It does set the player up enough with its mechanics and as mikekob breakdown of your default move set it does give u the essential moves needed to get by but not a reasonable amount of damage for later stages.

Seraphim17again with his EW akumu lp:

He discusses many issues like lack of iframes, match hit box detection and aiming issues.

Letter boxing can be removed now for consoles as an option at least for PS4, which I have just played it on. This was always an option for pc port.
I think letter boxing should have always been an option much like original re4 letterboxing obscuring parts of the screen, I think it was due to poor optimisation.

Sorry for my poor typing I can often struggle to write my thoughts well as im better at speaking in person, im not so knowledgable on how to use quotes, links and other writing things to help keep my responses clear as I often loose my trail of thought and digress. ill need to figure this out.

Also I haven't had much sleep recently and mainly today and need some rest, I'll make simpler less mentally taxing comments for now and read this disscussion all the while. I'll try not to rack my brain too much haha. U guys have fun.

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10 Re: The Evil Within on Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:55 pm

I see your point, but even Seraphim notes how much bullshit it contains. I don't mind a challenge, obviously, but in the realm of designed around it is welcomed. This reminds me of FURBAR in Spec Ops: The Line. Great game, amazing story, but on the hardest setting some fights and even cinematics just...fall apart. There's a part where you have to run from a helicopter in a straight line and there is no tactic. It is complete RNG if you will make it or not. 
I really like it best when a setting shows the best of a game, not the worst.

Generally in shooters the design isn't good enough that pure skill will see you through. The exception (to me) is Painkiller. Easily my favorite shooter of all time.

Gabriel Phelan Lucas wrote:Sorry for my poor typing I can often struggle to write my thoughts well as im better at speaking in person, im not so knowledgable on how to use quotes, links and other writing things to help keep my responses clear as I often loose my trail of thought and digress. ill need to figure this out. 

Also I haven't had much sleep recently and mainly today and need some rest, I'll make simpler less mentally taxing comments for now and read this disscussion all the while. I'll try not to rack my brain too much haha. U guys have fun.

Dude, no worries. Just post what you want and how you feel and what you want to talk about. That's what this place is all about : ) I still have to reply to your RPG post - will do so in a sec.
Sleep well friend!

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11 Re: The Evil Within on Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:14 pm

Thnx Roy I just need to tap out and recollect and relax for a while. I'll be sure to comment when I can.

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12 Re: The Evil Within on Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:19 pm

Gabriel Phelan Lucas wrote:Thnx Roy I just need to tap out and recollect and relax for a while. I'll be sure to comment when I can.
Just know your enthusiasm was welcomed and appreciated :) Have a nice night!

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13 Re: The Evil Within on Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:59 am

Birdman


Moderator
I just can't get how quoting works. It keeps doing something I don't want. I'll admit I'm pretty stupid when it comes to these things though.

. I cannot imagine doing the entire game no-damage on Akumu mode (pretty cool that they did the idea); would feel that a game would need to be brilliantly designed to keep this fair.

It's definitely not designed well. It's doable and I've done the infamous burning house on Akumu, but it required real preparation and skill to beat, and even then something can go horribly wrong. Though I have seen better players just run circles around the enemies and get out of there easily.

Overall, it's like Souls a bit in that you will die A LOT figuring out where traps are and all that. It's not always fun, but some parts are. I just don't think they balanced certain parts very well on Akumu but they limited resources too so I believe it was tested.

No upgrade is far from impossible. It just requires that previous experience and knowledge of how everything works. Even then I died so many times and never tried replay it.

Akumu in general DOES limit how you can play though, due to limited resources and more enemies.

Getting no-damage on Resident Evil 4 is doable but imagine doing it on games like Vanquish, Metal Gear Rising (one stray bullet) or Ninja Gaiden 2 is just a painful thought in and of itself

Do you mean the full game or stage by stage?

To be fair, after I found this out my go to strategy (on my first run through mind you) was hit-hit-walk forward past them-turn-hit-hit-repeat on one on one fights for easy kills. I liked how Sebastian was detailed less powerful than Leon in the way he holds his gun or refuses to use that freak'n machette he's wielding but instead goes for ye 'ol pistolwhip. He's an oldsk00l cop who probably prefers to call his enemies "dirtbag".


Yeah you can do this to single enemies, just the way that player was complaining about how the enemies would tank it. That only happens if you just keep hitting them and do a 'get the f*ck off me' attack. You have to delay exactly like you did to avoid this.

I think you misinterpreted this, there's 'story events' that when triggered 'shake the world' which cause Sebastian to stagger. During this time enemies don't stagger and you are just at the game's mercy.

Rewatched. You're right. He said something different but I didn't hear it properly the first time due to his accent. I don't remember any such event that does this though, and nothing on that bus (could be wrong). He said 'reacting to the environment' and from the video it looked like he moved Seb into some boxes or rubble and he got caught on them which pulled him out of aiming. Still a problem if that's what is happening, I've just never had this happen.

I don't know but was the game ported at the last minute? Was it always a PS4 titled or a PS3 titled that got updated last minute to launch on the big new system?

I recall it being multi-platform. Released on all at once.

If we're talking realism, I don't feel it. It feels like such a weird choice to make RNG a factor in a title like this, not something he'd do. Sounds more like a Yoko Taro thing haha.

Then let's call it an attempt at realism. Makes sense with only the handgun and magnum having an accuracy stat. Seems like they're telling us 'hey these guns aren't the most accurate so boost this'. It does seem like they were going for something with this but who knows?

Also if they were going for realism, why is the shotgun a close-range weapon only? This is a videogame myth; it's a mid-range weapon.

haha yeah. I'm aware of this, but they never make it as effective. Still I'd say that's a damage thing, not accuracy.

In RE2 he's just a generic rookie but in RE4 he's refreshing. His jokes, quips, stance - guy's an honest to god 90's action hero. Then in the movies he's suddenly "mister serious".

Yeah this. He does still throw the odd joke, but even then it's still super serious. RE6 was the same He's pretty much just another guy with a gun.

It was everywhere at the time. Last of Us, Crysis 3, TR reb00ts, Far Cry 3, Assassins Creed 3 etc. Shit was everywhere for a while. Kotaku even wrote a piece on it (a horrible one).

I only played the TR reboots and TLoU, and not near each other. In TLoU, was the bow even a main weapon or just for that one segment hunting deer? That link to Kotaku is just their main page.

But is it really an issue that the bow was used by many games at the time, or, was it that the bow gameplay was bad and copy/paste? Another question that could be raised is why aren't guns and blades in the same boat of criticism? At least compared to both TR games, I found TEW's crossbow unique and fun. It offers a lot of gameplay variety and I had fun using it.

So yeah, not trying to be mean but I don't see anything as bad as "here's a guy who will randomly appear and kill you" or "you're stuck in a wall of blood with random dudes everywhere, figure it out".

It's true, TEW is way worse in that regard. But I think this varies from person to person and I base the RE4 comment on a first time basis. The RE4 first village fight, some may not know what they are supposed to do, though will most likely run around or kill. Both work, but at first you don't know for sure. You don't know how many will keep coming especially when the next waves come in, or you trigger the chainsaw man. There will be conflict over whether to keep blasting and losing ammo. Remember at first players would not have knowledge of i-frames and baiting enemies into knife>melee. But yeah eventually, as you said you will accomplish one or the other regardless, but I would still put that in the same basket as any situation in TEW (maybe not any but at least the 'unclear amount of mobs comment').

Maybe the first U3/IT fight could count or the Krauser encounter as they are more puzzle bosses. I remember going to Gamespy (damn nostalgia) as a kid to look up strats for U3; no idea back then on how to deal with him.

Yeah U3 gave me trouble too. So did Krauser. I remember complaints about how to deal with these from others too. So this shows that RE4 does have those things, but I fully agree that TEW is worse in this regard.

My most hated part in EW that made me rage (which is rare) was the fish; I couldn't figure out how that part worked so I kept getting eaten alive.

This discussion is really making it clear to me how rusty I am on certain things and probably should not be trusted lol. Refresh my memory on this fish.

Talking about the bow, I don't like the feeling of impact or immersion. I know bows can be lethal and all, but seeing a guy walk around with a damned crossbow just feels weird to me. And the impact too. There's no 'oomph' to firing it.

Aside from that, how do you feel about it's usage? Like arrow types, combat effectiveness.

Have to go to work. Will respond to the following posts later. Great discussion. I want to start listing combat options and tips at some point, but will probably have to play the game again. I don't trust my memory at the moment.






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14 Re: The Evil Within on Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:08 am

Birdman


Moderator
to note roy i saw the EW fish part clearly as u can see corpses hanged above and can use them as bait to distract fishes, that section was simple for me but yeh i can see how some might catch on faster to certain things.

Ohhh. Yeah my memory is garbage if I forgot that. Wow.
I died a few times there before I realized you could bait them with corpses. I think I just shot one down to see if I could, then saw the fish go after it.

Seraphim is way too nitpicky here. I like his content though half the stuff he says isn't as bad as that, and is more the way he wants it to be that be comfortable. Every game does not need i-frames on everything. Matches don't need it. That would be insane. Where's the thought in your actions if you're just invincible every time you perform certain important actions?

Again, though it seems I defend this game quite a lot, I have a list of issues. I just find a lot of the criticisms are more opinion and nitpicking.

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15 Re: The Evil Within on Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:54 am

From a mechanical standpoint I liked the bow, liked the different types of arrows it had etc. and how it had a crafting system around it. So mechanically I like it. But I don't know, it's just a personal gripe I guess. Never connected with me. If there is one thing that I haven't mentioned yet and dislike immensly it's the ammo-cap. The Last of Us had this too and in my opinion it punishes skilled players in an artificial way. Even if you end up saving lots of ammo by using smart stealth or melee abilities you end up with a nice "cannot carry any more" message in your face.

I do recall someone making a note by saying "this way the game forces you to play offensive" but I don't buy it. It's an artificial way of making ammo scarce without actual smart design behind it.

> U3/IT/KRAUSER
It's funny how history tends to forget these things. We've played RE4 so much we basically forgot that some parts were unclear.

Birdman wrote:I recall it being multi-platform. Released on all at once.
What I mean to say, was it always planned like that or was it a Breath of the Wild (aka, built for the Wii-U and ported last minute with some technical advantages to the Switch)?

Birdman wrote:Do you mean the full game or stage by stage?

The full game in one go, if possible. There's too much random factor around to make this possible. By design: you will get hit. Compare that to games such as God Hand, RE4, Viewtiful Joe and Ninja Gaiden Black and a skilled player can avoid all damage; no real luck.

You do note having issues with the game (which I can fully understand), can you name a few?

Have to say if I wasn't so busy with other games I'd probably buy this one again. I was so hyped for it back then...I think that worked against it in many ways.

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16 Re: The Evil Within on Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:23 am

Birdman


Moderator
From a mechanical standpoint I liked the bow, liked the different types of arrows it had etc. and how it had a crafting system around it. So mechanically I like it.

I should have made myself more clear from the start. Yeah I was speaking from a mechanics point of view.

What I mean to say, was it always planned like that or was it a Breath of the Wild (aka, built for the Wii-U and ported last minute with some technical advantages to the Switch)?


I'm not 100% sure though the wiki says it was released worldwide for all those platforms so maybe they actually had multiple versions ready to go with no true original.

The full game in one go, if possible. There's too much random factor around to make this possible. By design: you will get hit. Compare that to games such as God Hand, RE4, Viewtiful Joe and Ninja Gaiden Black and a skilled player can avoid all damage; no real luck.


It would be no different than those games you listed to a degree, because it's possible to do any chapter on Akumu not taking damage. I've never seen a full runthrough, but I have seen chapter by chapter. Then again, yeah EW has more horrible situations and some random stuff so single segment doesn't seem likely without having something go wrong that has nothing to do with skill.

edit: just looked up speedruns and it seems there are single segment runs, so it must be possible though I don't know how many deaths and I'm not sitting through them right now.

Has anyone actually played GH or NGB nonstop start to finish, without being hit once? GH seems like it would be super hard to do as there are many nasty fights. But then that's human error, not some element you have little to no control over.

You do note having issues with the game (which I can fully understand), can you name a few?

The handgun accuracy is a garbage mechanic. The limited ammo count you mentioned annoys me as well for the exact reasons you stated, though maybe not as much. On the other hand, maybe Mikami saw how much we can stockpile in RE4 if we're skilled, what we can do with the knife/melee and just destroy everything. Maybe he just didn't want a repeat of that and fans everywhere were crying out for real survival.

Also, I wanted the encounters with the boss creatures to be dynamic like HG. Mikami talked about it like that would be the case, but in the end they were all highly scripted. I was seriously looking forward to being hunted by Laura (easily one of the scariest things I've seen in a game besides Regenerators) hiding in closets or under beds and she scuttles past. While the chases were pretty frightening, after I'd finished the game I looked back with disappointment.

I was so hyped for it back then...I think that worked against it in many ways.

Me too and it did. Still, I felt the game was decent, and I personally rate it as worth owning and replaying. I'm dying waiting for the sequel.

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17 Re: The Evil Within on Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:17 am

I recall finding the Lisa encounters more annoying than scary or 'fun'/'enjoyable'. Everytime she showed up I only though "ugh, here we go again" which isn't a good sign for me. I should really give it another go on PS4 but just the thought of avoiding Random Ruvik in Chapter..7(?) is holding me back a lot.

Really curious about the sequel. What is Mikami's influence in that? Directing again?

About the ammo. There must be better ways to it. For one he made melee weaker so there ya go, because knife > Melee was broken as hell in RE4 and older RE's too. Hell CVX's knife was one of the best weapons in the game, did bizarre amounts of damage and hitstun. But yeah I hate this way of 'solving' the problem. Just feels very quick and dirty without much thought gone into it.

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18 Re: The Evil Within on Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:32 am

Birdman


Moderator
All of the chase encounters became like that for me because of how scripted they are. I woukd rather they be like Haunting Ground though as I noted before all the indue games using similar mechanics have ruined it.

I like the Ruvik parts to an extent as they were the closest the game gets to CT3/HG but there are no mechanics to his appearances. In HG certain actions would make noise that attracted stalker. Ruvik is just...there, and teleports all over the place too. I believe he's on a timer because I remember just running around the stairs and he just vanished after some time passed.

As for the sequel, I heard the guy who directed the DLC is doing it. No idea what role Mikami is playing. I would assume advising on some level.

I'm not sure how I would deal with the ammo issue. It was something survival horror fans cried out for and I guess weren't too concerned how.

I guess they could just say it's more 'realistic' to not have bottomless pockets. I dont know. Is there any unique way to have limited ammo?

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19 Re: The Evil Within on Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:43 am

I think it was wasted potential, something feels off about its production with Bethesda involved the must have wanted to get hype of having daddy re make another re type game, ill have to look into its production to see but it's seems dodgey.

I like Laura boss but it's lacking in execution, the whole game really, its unrefined.

It's tried to be too many things n didn't commit to many of them so it suffers overall, kidman dlc which is mostly stealth from what I seen so that's more focused.

Their was some false advertisement going around since mobs where said to get back up if they die but they only ever play dead or die(very obviously like dead space necromorphs) sort of like crimson heads or more like shibito from siren(love the atmosphere n shibito n their weird nature n some of the eldritch looking ones r bizarre)

Overall I'm not surprised by the outcome n only really lament wasted potential.

I was playing vanquish n I'll play EW safe man Dlc soon n it was neat little first person melee game no bullshit walky bits just u and your hammah, it not often u can play as a horror villain.

It was worth replaying(had it on PS3 at launch n now PS4 pro, boost mode helps fps n loading a lot)n I had more fun this time.

EW2 looks to have fixed issues I have with lack of mobs, surreal areas etc

Needs more surreal areas, as so many r generic 2000s torture porn basements that failed to remind me its supposed to be a surreal horror brain land, says a lot about how bland ruvik is if his own mind world is some saw/hostel sex dungeon.

I wasn't expecting haunting ground since what was shown was more like re4, it turned out how I kinda figured, I'm not surprised by much anyway n just sort of except things good or bad, im lvl headed like that. It is what it is I guess.

I don't think mikami was into it the way It turned out, he can do so much better n I'd rather him not iterate n make unique well made games like he used to. It's all a bit half arsed.

Mikekob said he restarts if he gets hit for his god hand lp since even he has trouble with some rough encounters(debussey, demon Shannon)

I never had an issue with limited ammo once I upgraded them n I am stingy anyway n play smart n save ammo so I use the spare ones to get some free shots in. I always had way more than I needed for my 2 runs, it gives u a lot of tools to use so it's about being resourceful, re u usually have limited inventory n other survival horror have some sort of item limit to make it more tense. Your ammo is spread out between all your weapons so u have to use what u have n be creative, that stuff works well at times in EW.

I only played on survivalist I think so I can't say for other modes, upgrades give u tons of space for ammo, when u don't need to have 50matches n tons of other ammo. Re4 was tense fresh run since u have less ammo n have to upgrade stuff n be resourceful shots thru knife n melee.

U can easily be op if u have right weapons n strats, bow has so many bolts to use that can stun n trivialise some stuff, most bolts stun mobs n allow to to do other things while they r. I think it'd meant to be like grenades in re4 or re5 genade launcher similair types that have similar effects n can be op.

I always have tons of ammo in survival horror n end up either using them on a boss or not using them due to being stingy.

Poor item usage was something that could kill u n ruin whole runs of survival horror games, u supposed to be surviving not a cod shoot bang man like vanquish. U need to feel like u r actually surviving n not a sick action combo man ya know, so its just another way to make u feel n play like that. Not the only way but it is one.

I hated that odd section with Joseph u defend him in a series of small rooms with lots of mobs, was a poorly designed version of re4 village or cabin defence sequence, it shows how unfair it can be since so many mobs pile in, I did use my gear well but it was more tedious then tense re4 version of it. Not enough space to move around, mobs can gang bang u n they have long grab moves.

I don't get scared of games anymore I love being disturbed n not jump scared, EW was not scary at all for me it's very loud n grimy n many areas n creatures where lacking n where all very typical. I value tension in horror games, or all games I play usually for an intense challenge, not being scared I don't really. Survivals horror is cool cus u have to fight back at some point n not usually just run so that makes it more tense n triumphant when u finally beat your enemies.
Horror is hard to do n some don't respond the same to same stuff, It's very odd like that.

If u want what EW could have been check siren series, I played siren blood curse it was good stuff, has good mix of stealth, melee n guns n bizarre world n creatures. Shibito r undead humans who still think they r normal n do normal things but r undying monsters that some r not even human looking much at all(I'd love a siren 2 remake like blood curse was for 1)

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20 Re: The Evil Within on Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:53 am

About the ammo. Mechanically speaking Resident Evil 4 did it perfectly if you did not upgrade the suitcase. You could technically carry all the ammo in the world but as a result would have less space for healing items or weapons. Stronger weapons could take up more space than weaker ones etc.
It's a brilliant little mechanic. Deus Ex also used this mechanic in all its modern entries where it worked pretty nicely with strong weapons taking up huge amounts of space but weaker weapons like the pistol and stun gun only a few blocks. The biggest mistake that game (and others) make is allowing you to make the suitcase large enough to fit a universe inside of it.

What you want to avoid as a game though is to become like ZombiU. In that game ammo was very important but what ended up happening was that you would just melee each zombie to death; which took really long as your melee was incredibly slow and weak. You - as a designer - need to find a fine balance between making conserving ammo possible while not making it too tedious to do. One way would be to have stealth kills like Evil Within does but replace the melee by a push, allowing you to avoid combat if out of ammo and rush to the end. Another element to keep in mind is why the player should kill the enemies at all. The more you play these games the more you'll just run past them outside of those that you have to kill. Evil Within uses the lame way of 'door is corrupted until everything is dead' but there are other ways perhaps. Lots of elements to keep in mind which all come down to the core of the gameplay, which seems to have gotten a lot of thought in Resident Evil 4 and not so much in The Evil Within.

One fun way you could improve on the suitcase is to add another dimension maybe:



That way you can add even more depth and puzzle into your inventory management rewarding players who are smart with organizing their loadout.

Gabriel wrote:Needs more surreal areas, as so many r generic 2000s torture porn basements that failed to remind me its supposed to be a surreal horror brain land, says a lot about how bland ruvik is if his own mind world is some saw/hostel sex dungeon.
Agreed. I was really taken aback by just how generic the levels were in design. Here's the house he grew up in. Here's his own lab. Here's a graveyard. Come on, we are in his mind, go nuts. Inception as a movie also played this way too safe imo.

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21 Re: The Evil Within on Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:05 am

Birdman


Moderator
Their was some false advertisement going around since mobs where said to get back up if they die

I forgot about this! I was looking forward to this feature. While there's some cool things you can do with matches like using them on oil pools, enemies stunned by shock bolt, hay bales, enemies caught in bear traps, and using dead enemies to lure in multiple others and catch all of them, outside of that matches are really like having another gun.

I wasn't expecting haunting ground since what was shown was more like re4,

Just the hide and seek gameplay aspects.

Re4 was tense fresh run since u have less ammo n have to upgrade stuff n be resourceful shots thru knife n melee.

It was when I first played it but once you find out how powerful the knife+melee is (like to the point you use it OVER guns a lot of the time), you can save so much ammo that resource management becomes non-existent even on Pro.

I hated that odd section with Joseph u defend him in a series of small rooms with lots of mobs, was a poorly designed version of re4 village or cabin defence sequence, it shows how unfair it can be since so many mobs pile in, I did use my gear well but it was more tedious then tense re4 version of it. Not enough space to move around, mobs can gang bang u n they have long grab moves.

I hated the part after that where he would run into traps and get killed instantly.

If u want what EW could have been check siren series,

I have them on PS2. Played Blood Curse (or New Translation as mine was called) and I liked what they did with sight-jacking but it really hurt the framerate so I didn't end up using the new features much. I had this one horrifying encounter but to describe it would massively spoil that part.

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22 Re: The Evil Within on Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:33 pm

So I caved. Evil Within was on sale for 9 euros on the PSN-store for PS4 so I decided to just get it. Doubt it will get that cheap anytime soon as it's probably a hype-sale for the sequel coming out. Might play it a bit this weekend, try and give it a chance outside of hoping it is a new RE game but see it in a new light. 

Cheers!

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23 Re: The Evil Within on Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:03 am

Birdman


Moderator
In that case how about we focus more on gameplay and tips/strategies for enemies, resource usage etc?

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24 Re: The Evil Within on Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:34 am

Survival horror tends to not be so much survival if u good enough so balancing tends to be an issue, it's all still fun using all your tools effectively so that's what matters. Fresh runs on higher modes makes u more careful so that usually works.

I always end up having way more stuff than I can even use so. Re4 I have so many grenades n herbs I just throw them around since I might as well pick up some more.

Crowd control is easy in EW with shotgun bow n others since u knock groups down then match to save ammo. I use pistol headshots to wipe out stragglers n leg shots to set up matches.

I used flash, shock, regular bolts the most, shock bolts can chain stun mobs for various set ups.

I played on survivalist I think, I always had plenty of stuff to use so my options where varied. It's easy to be op with right stuff n some thought.

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25 Re: The Evil Within on Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:43 am

Any amount of tips, like what to upgrade and what to avoid - how to deal with certain foes etc. would be really welcome. I'll get maybe some hours in today. I have 0 planned this weekend so today is God of War PAIN run day, after that some Nioh with a buddy of mine and then EW.

I will start on the highest available setting this time though as I already played the original setting once on the PS3.

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26 Re: The Evil Within on Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:44 am

Birdman


Moderator
Well, if you're playing Akumu, health and syringe are pointless. Stamina is important for dashing. Flash bolts are super useful too, especially chapter 6 burning house, and any time you want to take out a group.

Maybe handgun capacity and critical. Damage is kinda pointless as you would never want to just gun something down in this game. Better to go for critical headshots, or leg shots while they're running to drop them then light a match. I'd also level up match and crossbow capacity. Melee is useless on this mode.

I'm not too sure on the shotgun. I forgot what I upgraded on that but in terms of use, the obvious headshots, or just as an instant knockdown match setup.

Magnum damage for boss fights, and I've read people like rifle damage at max because it does such high damage.

You want to disarm traps but the ones where you have to stop the pointer are faster and the space where you can stop it is way smaller on Akumu.

I would recommend the hard mode though. Akumu is too horrible and frustrating especially coming back to the game after a break. It's up to you though.




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27 Re: The Evil Within on Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:23 am

Yeah I should've been more clear, I meant the highest setting outside of Akumu; no way I'm starting with that mode hahahaha.

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28 Re: The Evil Within on Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:38 am

Birdman


Moderator
The truth is I've never played hard or nightmare, I just know they aren't OHK everything (well nightmare might be close to it). I went straight to Akumu because I figured it was a waste of time to playthrough twice more in difficulty increments just to reach the mode I wanted.

Though whatever works well on Akumu should work even better on anything lower.

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29 Re: The Evil Within on Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:07 pm

Yeah I'm really traditional, I generally play all difficulty settings one in a row. After the last one I start doing Handicap Runs - which is why it always takes me so long haha. I take my sweet ass time. Cheers for the advice man : )

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30 Re: The Evil Within on Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:34 am

Birdman


Moderator
Just loaded it up. So you will be doing Nightmare mode. If you beat this you get the brass knuckles I think. I'm going to start a new file on this mode so I can unlock those.

I was just thinking, I really wish Sebastian's coat was an unlockable costume.

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31 Re: The Evil Within on Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:25 am

I'll play the executioner Dlc today. I did survivalist don't think nightmare was unlocked. Yeh critical is what u want don't bother with damage, capacity for your most used things, matches unlock that all the way early on. Bow harpoon is super op if full lvl, it has fire tip added so it's insta kill for most mobs n Laura hates it. Re4 crowd control stuff should get u far.

Never used grenades much they useful for group knockdowns. Search areas for statues that have keys, n other gel goodies for upgrades.

Bow bolts r for crowd control n stunning mobs in various ways, mostly the same. Shock can chain stun mobs for match setups.

Mobs can play dead sometimes it's obvious I don't think they rag doll or u can see they still alive since u should usually see drops from them n u know they dead if it's a headshot.

Shoot legs n if they don't fall hit them, they will usually fall right after that.

Scavenge traps for parts for bow bolts.

They take big damage from harsh criticism.

Don't overthink bosses it's usually shoot to kill, use arena space well, barrels n such, use spare ammo if u r filled up.
Let Joseph kill most mobs for u his axe is op insta kill for mobs.

Throw bottles in mobs faces to stun them for insta kill.

Isn't Leon's jacket not unlockable? I'd rather just have Leon model in place of seb.

I always found it odd how open the village chapters r but rest is pretty linear, sort of like re4 except eh.

Sniper headshot to alter ego/lanky mobs usually insta kill if aimed at the monster head, I think flash bolt can insta kill them if their plaga is active.

If u have a PS4 pro use boost mode it helps fps n loading times a lot.



Last edited by Gabriel Phelan Lucas on Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:36 am; edited 1 time in total

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32 Re: The Evil Within on Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:35 am

Birdman


Moderator
Bow harpoon is super op if full lvl, it has fire tip added so it's insta kill

It's probably the best thing in the game but costs so much to get.

I'm going to go through nightmare on and off as I have little time during the week, but I want to focus on regular bolts. They're actually really good. Silent, cheap to make, and their power is decent.

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33 Re: The Evil Within on Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:40 am

No bow run could be interesting. No match run also. Use all tools u have.

Did u play safe head Dlc bird man?

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34 Re: The Evil Within on Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:49 am

Haunted designs remind me of shibito in siren, except haunted get less interesting designs the further u go, they looked cool with barb wire n stakes in them, City part mobs look like average joes. Blood man boss is sad since it's not a proper boss, that monster design is cool, since it's clearly magic n looks visually striking compared to the mundane areas n mobs. Blood n torture porn stuff is EW aesthetic, EW2 has much more striking art just with the little presented.

I don't expect cept EW2 to be great just better than 1. Hope it had a better dev cycle, 1 seems dodgy, mikami looks to have been forced to make EW n wasn't too into it n it shows since it's a rough game.

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35 Re: The Evil Within on Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:55 am

Birdman


Moderator
The first playthrough for me was great. I was scared to death and not knowing what to expect. It wasn't really until after and I replayed that the disappointment and flaws really set in. I still take EW as a good game though. Wouldn't be replaying it and trying out new things if it wasn't.

I'm actually expecting EW2 to be excellent. The DLC wasn't Mikami and it actually freaked me out more than the main game. Pretty sure the current director can do a better job, especially if Mikami isn't feeling it anymore.

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36 Re: The Evil Within on Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:13 am

It is solid, I do like it enough to buy n play again, but I'll always take re4 over it but that's my bias n that's fine I have good choice for games like re4 perspective n similar combat.

I'd rather mikami just make what he wants n not what Bethesda wants, so it's fine if it's not him, he has enough great games to play.

Zenimax owns tango game works so it's on their mercy if mikami can make a game.

Yeh wonder what Dlc will be for EW2.

Being realistic it will likely be a better version of 1, as in what it should have been, it looks to have same gameplay but refined so we'll see, I hope it will be good.

U mention being scared n such with horror games, is that a big draw for u?

I don't get scared it's more I like tension n disturbing creatures, worlds, sounds n lore implications like sh2 that I like.

Did u play executioner dlc?

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37 Re: The Evil Within on Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:31 am

Birdman


Moderator
U mention being scared n such with horror games, is that a big draw for u?

Yes. I'm still scared of the RE4 Regenerators though not as much as the first few times encountering them. I don't get scared as in, screaming or dropping controls or anything.

I don't get scared it's more I like tension n disturbing creatures

This too.

Did u play executioner dlc?
I have it but no. I watched a video then quit because it looked like something I'd never want to play.

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38 Re: The Evil Within on Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:48 am

Crap, I have to start on Survival as Nightmare needs to be unlocked (I played the PS3 version before, now have the PS4 version). Sucks.

And yeah I always miss those coats, had the same with Leon in RE4. And no you couldn't unlock it without Action Replay cheats.

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39 Re: The Evil Within on Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:54 am

The game is clicking a lot better with me this time around. I'm treating it more like a stealth-horror-game and it's working out for me. Stealthed the whole of chapter 2 and got all the collectibles that I could find. Got some good equipment now and even managed to take out the 'horde' with just two matches. Sitting on a nice nearly 7000 gel already and max ammo and healing items. 

I do cheat one bit, I have spotify active with some nice relaxing tunes haha. I'm not that great with horror anymore; especially in games.

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40 Re: The Evil Within on Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:46 pm

Almost through chapter 3. Still having a blast. Game is really bad in terms of performance though, is that normal? Barely hits 30fps and stutters a shit ton. Seeing it as a stealth game really is making it shine though. I've only had one real fight against a few mooks which ended in one getting a legshot so he would burn with his wife ("Sadisticccc" - DmC announcer). 

Really liking the design of Sebastian too. He feels very antique but interesting. Mikami knows how to design a character. Lacks a bit of personality so far though.

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41 Re: The Evil Within on Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:54 pm

Yeh it has dodgy fps, PS4 pro boost mode helps it. Some odd blurring filter makes things look low res also. Turn off letterbox in the options if u want.

I didn't care for the character designs they all looked bland, detective looking cast not much else, not iconic or standout enough to remember, not awful just eh.

It does lack personality that's a big gripe I have, it takes itself to seriously theirs nothing to really laugh at like re4, same as re5-6 they so stoic most of the time it kills the mood can someone just lighten up fam. I skipped all the cutscenes this time they don't have any rewatch value.

I suppose we r all on the same page with EW more or less ha.

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42 Re: The Evil Within on Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:40 pm

My biggest gripe with the story, which I recall from my first run though, was that it was just so obvious that the radio-static meant they were in the STEM. So the feeling of ambiguity at the end and certain scenes is completely dead on whether or not they are out.

I noticed I could turn of Letterboxing, and I swear that wasn't in the original release. Did they patch that in? Seems like it. Don't have a PS4Pro sadly, so no boosting for me.

And yeah most cutscenes are skipped now too. But I rarely rewatch cutscenes anyway outside or maybe Resident Evil 4's "Where's everyone going, bingo?" which is pure comedy gold. I love how Nioh added a 'skip watched cutscenes automatically' button in the menu. Genius addition.

At chapter 4 now. Max ammo for everything and max matches, a bit..overstocked haha. Still having a blast. Last time a game didn't click with me so badly and then clicked so badly was Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, and that's a long time ago. Thanks for getting me back into this guys :)

About Sebastian:


I like how his design is a mixture of what seems to be Leon and Dale Cooper (from the tv-show Twin Peaks). His more victorian and 'oldsk00l' feel works nicely. I'm a fan. My favorite character design of this generation still belongs to Ivan from Devil's Third but this one is pretty high up too. Wish he'd keep the coat somehow.

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43 Re: The Evil Within on Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:48 pm

They patched letterbox option later, helps visibility a lot like re4 had same issue with letterbox.

No prob enjoy it for what it is, I'm doing the executioner Dlc now it's fun melee 1st person game.

All games should give u skip scene options that's a common curtesy. Same as custom controls., which r lacking in most games, nier A for all its faults has custom controls which is a big step up for platinum.

Back to EW. I said some tips up top so keep those in mind.

Seb design is fine it's not for me tho, I'll take Leon he cool handsome dood, and likes bingo. It's kind of unfair to compare most things to re4 since it's so stellar, but u will see some straight up re4 sections in EW(fish chase, island shutter doors u have to stand back to open for mobs to come out n fire, village sections n the like, el egante retarded tiny siblings as bosses, dog monster n the like that's horror tropes for u)

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44 Re: The Evil Within on Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:01 pm

Comparing any game to Resident Evil 4 is painful, as it just shows how far ahead of its time that title was and how behind the curve current day titles are. That game has more polish and care in its first few hours than most games do in their entire 30 hour runtime.

To be fair, I have to note, RE4 loses a lot of staying power for me once you reach the castle and even more when you hit the island on disc-2. Can't recall how EW mixes it up, been years. We'll see!


All games should give u skip scene options that's a common curtesy. Same as custom controls., which r lacking in most games, nier A for all its faults has custom controls which is a big step up for platinum.

Interesting and fun articles:

http://kotaku.com/5955855/the-ten-commandments-of-video-game-menus
http://kotaku.com/the-ten-commandments-of-video-game-collectables-1795858317

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45 Re: The Evil Within on Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:14 pm

I know what u mean with re4 staying power, it's about how much u enjoy the core gameplay for me so I love it whole way through, island stages n before r more combat encounters with neat gimmicks thrown in here n their, combat is so fun I don't mind.

I dedicate to games I play n finish them, it's why I usually avoid open world games with lots of CONTENT.

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46 Re: The Evil Within on Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:20 am

Beat the executioner Dlc, has some cool stuff like bear traps, grabs, environment kills(spike walls, spinning blades) some different weapons like hammer, rocket, chainsaw n a machete for ng+.

It's short n sweet nice n simple gameplay, it's arena based combat some stages from main game r reused, u fight haunted waves n each main arena has a boss. U get tokens for smashing things n enemies, that's it really, good fun.

SPOILERS FOR DLC

It's confirmed that ruvik escaped stem via wesleys body, that's it really, no shock, just wonder what 2 will have in store. It's all an exuse for surreal nonsense so whatever.



Last edited by Gabriel Phelan Lucas on Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:34 am; edited 2 times in total

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47 Re: The Evil Within on Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:21 am

Birdman


Moderator
(I played the PS3 version before, now have the PS4 version)

I was recently in the same position.

I like how his design is a mixture of what seems to be Leon and Dale Cooper (from the tv-show Twin Peaks)

Damn that was a bizarre show and I loved it. Are you watching season 3? I'm at ep 4 but it feels like they're purposely trying to make it as random and weird as possible and I feels a bit forced.

Did you ever play Deadly Premonition? It's pretty much Twin Peaks: The Game.

Wish he'd keep the coat somehow.

Would have made a prime unlockable.

His more victorian and 'oldsk00l' feel works nicely. I'm a fan.

I love his design. I bet if we could go to his house it would be full of old school stuff.

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48 Re: The Evil Within on Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:16 am

Deadly Premonition is something I really want to play but only when I know I have the time to sink into it. Like that I know there won't be a release I'm looking forward to or whatever. Really want to play it - badly.

And the new show...yeah. It's a lot more in the vibe of David Lynch's current work and how the movie was, not like the show at all. I don't mind it, if it was just 'more of the same' I'd be disappointed but this is a pretty big departure yeah.

Would have made a prime unlockable.
I honestly don't get it. The model exists: use it. Leon had the same, that sweet sweet boomer jacket.

It's confirmed that ruvik escaped stem via wesleys body, that's it really, no shock, just wonder what 2 will have in store. It's all an exuse for surreal nonsense so whatever.
Except I'm pretty sure they are still in STEM at the end. You hear the noise in their head that notes this, and Leslie disappears - which is impossible as both he and Ruvik don't have super powers.

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49 Re: The Evil Within on Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:10 am

I meant he escaped something via Wesleys body is all, some file mentionsit, the stem system is supposed to be for mind control, via direct plug or wireless, so that's gonna be the escalation in EW2.
The ringing must be the frequency.

Ruvik brain is only one who can control stem, Wesley has same brain sync so he is needed as a host for ruvik to leave stem, ruvik is a ghost in stem machine he doesn't even have a body or brain attached in the real world.

Also notice the stem bath fluid is a milky white like the wax in EW2, might be what they have in mind, much classier visuals. I noticed a lot of weird visuals for the EW2 trailer, like some odd giant meat pillars in a city area or a giant mechanical eye in the sky.



Last edited by Gabriel Phelan Lucas on Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:24 am; edited 1 time in total

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50 Re: The Evil Within on Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:23 am

Birdman


Moderator
I'll be honest, I never understood a thing about the story.

So just messing around today, trying to trip enemies while they're running with a shot to the leg. Works often, though sometimes doesn't. I need to keep and eye on the exact part of their leg. Maybe it has to be below the knee and not an inch higher? I wasn't really paying attention.

Oh and I did something cool today. I threw a bottle at a guy and stunned him, then went up to do the knife kill, but accidentally pressed the melee button and the guy's head exploded from the punch. I wished I recorded that. Would make a cool gif, if I knew how to make such things haha.

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